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explosive
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
![]() Topic: a cruser to mushPosted: 27 Feb 2010 at 8:47am |
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Senile German player click on two Crus when he only have one and one is writed at combatdeclaration.
Second Crus did not hit and attacker have already three hit.
Do germany have to reroll :
Anything ?
Hole battle ? Other ?
bst Both Attacker and Defender, Roll#7,
3 Inf 2 Ftr 2 Crus vs 3 Inf
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Krieghund
Senior Member
JAG-AA50 Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 8:56am |
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Here's another thread on this same topic:
Basically, standard procedure is to re-roll the battle.
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JAG-AA50
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explosive
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 9:03am |
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But that thread was "combat declaration error"
Here is combat declaration rigth, just click one Crus ( that did not hit ) to mush.
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Krieghund
Senior Member
JAG-AA50 Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 9:15am |
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It doesn't matter where the error occurred. The bottom line is that the wrong number of units was rolled for. The battle results are tainted, so it must be done over, unless you and your opponent come to some other agreement.
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JAG-AA50
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BloodWasher
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 140 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:05am |
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So then, are you saying that there are no "combat declaration errors" and "rolling error" distinctions in AA50? That is not the way AAMC deals with such errors in 2nd edition and AAR.
Perhaps the JAGs need to confer on this issue?
Blood
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Krieghund
Senior Member
JAG-AA50 Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:33am |
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From a post by BlackWatch in the JAG Rulings forum, dated 12/30/07:
This is another item lost in the crash. It was orignailly decided by the JCS, but is not published anywhere on the site now, so I am re-entering from memory the rules regarding what happens if the wrong units are entered in Dicey.
2nd edition
You must enter the correct units in Dicey or re-roll the units involved. Exception: if the units entered in Dicey have the same hit value as the correct units, the roll(s) will stand (eg. attacking armor entered instead of attacking ftrs, defending armor instead of defending inf, defending BB instead of defending ftr).
AAR
You must enter the correct units in Dicey or re-roll the units involved.
Note: if you make an entry error in AAR with respect to artillery that affects the hit value of infantry units, you do NOT re-roll the correctly entered infantry units, but you may need to make an adjustment to the actual hits scored by those infantry units.
Eg.
Battle is correctly declared: 1 inf, 1 rtl v 1 inf.
Entered as 1 inf, 1 ftr v 1 inf.
Rolls:
Inf 2
ftr 4
inf 5
In this case, there is no need to re-roll - the attacking inf has scored a hit, since it is accompanied by an artillery piece and has rolled a 2.
BW, JAG |
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JAG-AA50
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AndrewAAGamer
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 396 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:35am |
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Originally posted by BloodWasher So then, are you saying that there are no "combat declaration errors" and "rolling error" distinctions in AA50? That is not the way AAMC deals with such errors in 2nd edition and AAR.
Perhaps the JAGs need to confer on this issue?
Blood I agree with Bloodwasher. If this was a 2nd Edition or AAR question the "ghost" roll would simply be ignored. I didn't realize we were using a different policy for AA50 games. I did assume, or perhaps saw it in a different posting, that for AA50 we are using AAR rules for rolling errors and that it must be the correct unit for the roll to count even if it happens to roll the same; as in rolling an infantry instead of an artillery in defense. |
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Krieghund
Senior Member
JAG-AA50 Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:46am |
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Is there a later ruling that supercedes the one I quoted above? I desire to conform with standard practices, but the above ruling doesn't seem to me to allow the roll to stand in the case where too many units are rolled for. I've searched for a specific reference to this case, but I haven't found one.
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JAG-AA50
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BloodWasher
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 140 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:57am |
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I think the ruling you quote from BlackWatch refers to entering the wrong type of unit, not the wrong number of units. I was under the impression that extra ghost units were still just ignored, as they are in 2nd edition.
I agree that AAMC rules are difficult to find on the website, and it is sometimes confusing to know what is valid and what has been overruled.. Perhaps they could be updated or consolidated into one new, overriding document?
Blood
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AndrewAAGamer
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 396 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:00pm |
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Here are the Club rules regarding rolling errors. As you can see they say you would simply ignore the extra unit as per item F all unaffected rolls stand. Also, as I said before, I think the exception for item E does not apply to AAR games, the units must be the correct unitfor AAR, but I don't know where that is posted.
2. Rolling Errors - Errors that occur AFTER combat has
been correctly declared, but while using Dicey or another roller. Since
Dicey lists the dice in the order that they were thrown the new error
correction guidelines will take this into account. a. AA Guns 1) If an AA Gun is turned
on accidentally (i.e. there was no AA Gun present) and the "ghost" AA
Gun scored a hit, then roll for the missing attacking aircraft, adjust
the counts, and then the entire battle is to be re-rolled starting with
the next round. 2) Ghost AA Guns that miss are ignored until they hit. If they
hit, resolve as per the previous paragraph. 3) If an AA Gun was forgotten
simply roll for the missing shots. If there were no AA hits then the
original battle stands. If a forgotten AA gun scores a hit, remove the
attacking aircraft, adjust the counts for Round 1 and the remainder of
the battle is to be re-rolled starting with Round 2. b. BB Support Shots 1) If a BB support shot was
forgotten simply roll for the missing shot. If it misses then the
original battle stands. If it hits, adjust for the extra defending
casualty and re-roll the remainder of the battle starting with Round 2. 2) If a person leaves the
BB support shot on in Round 2, or turns it on in any subsequent round,
then the generic ghost rule will apply. For every Round it doesn't hit
then it is simply ignored. If it does hit, the counts will be adjusted
and the remainder of the battle will be re-rolled starting with the next
round, as usual. c. If a player incorrectly enters too few units simply roll
for the missing units and then re-roll the remainder of the battle
beginning with the next round. d. If a player incorrectly
enters too many units, for any given unit type, simply start with the
first listed die roll and sequentially, from left to right, take the
correct number dice. As an example, if there were supposed to be 4
attacking armored units and the player incorrectly entered 7 then the
first 4 dice rolls will be used and the last 3 ignored. Then re-roll the
remainder of the battle beginning with the next round. e. If a player enters the
wrong type of unit then its roll will be ignored and the correct unit
will be rolled for. Exception: If the "wrong" unit attacks or defends
at the same value as the "right" unit then the rolls will stand. Example: A fighter is
accidentally entered for a bomber. The fighter's roll would be ignored
and the player would re-roll for the missing bomber. Example: If 2 defending
arm were entered instead of 2 defending infantry the rolls will stand. |
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Krieghund
Senior Member
JAG-AA50 Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:03pm |
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Could you provide me a link to this for future reference, Andrew?
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JAG-AA50
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AndrewAAGamer
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 396 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:05pm |
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Some confusion in my answers as I didn't see Krieghund's second post while I was doing my posts.
Bottom line since the battle was unaffected by the extra or ghost unit the entire battle stands since the battle was declared correctly. |
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AndrewAAGamer
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 396 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:10pm |
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Here is the Link http://www.aamc.net/bunker/forumsql/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64
It can also be found under Mess Hall, then pinned as item 2, AAMC FAQ: 3.6 |
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Krieghund
Senior Member
JAG-AA50 Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:17pm |
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Thanks. You're right, it is hard to locate rulings. Thanks for your help, Andrew and Blood!
I agree that the roll should stand, based on club rules. I apologize for the confusion, Explosive. I hope it didn't have an adverse effect on your game.
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JAG-AA50
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Carico67
Senior Member
Ass't Tournament Director Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1073 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:42pm |
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Damn those IAAPA/AAMC guys are fast! Thanks Blood/Andrew. Combat-Error declarations are different then accidental rolling of improper units indeed.
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explosive
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:43pm |
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no problem, my confusion is mostly total anyway.
Had no effect on the game, going for Germany 2 now.
Thank you all for figure things out.
BTW, can USA fleet in EIS move to EOC in one turn ?
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explosive
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
![]() Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:48pm |
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Ehhh, ignoore the USfleet question. in a moment of clear thinking i find it out myself.
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