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Rules - AA50
 AAMC.Net : Axis and Allies Members Club : Rules : Rules - AA50
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explosive
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Quote explosive Replybullet Topic: a cruser to mush
    Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 8:47am
Senile German player click on two Crus when he only have one and one is writed at combatdeclaration.
Second Crus did not hit and attacker have already three hit.
 
Do germany have to reroll :
Anything ?
Hole battle ?
Other ?
 
bst Both Attacker and Defender, Roll#7,
3 Inf 2 Ftr 2 Crus vs 3 Inf
1 Shot Land Support
(Max # of Land Shots is 3)
Attack Defend
2 Crus: 3*6 3 Inf: 21*4
2 Ftr: 1*
3 Inf: 635
Removing Crus so it won't fire again.
# Units Hit: 1
# Units Hit: 2 # Units Hit: 0
No More Defending Units!
Attacking Units Remaining:3 Inf 2 Ftr
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Krieghund
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Quote Krieghund Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 8:56am
Here's another thread on this same topic:
 
 
Basically, standard procedure is to re-roll the battle.
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explosive
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Quote explosive Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 9:03am
But that thread was "combat declaration error"
Here is combat declaration rigth, just click one Crus ( that did not hit ) to mush.
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Krieghund
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Quote Krieghund Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 9:15am
It doesn't matter where the error occurred.  The bottom line is that the wrong number of units was rolled for.  The battle results are tainted, so it must be done over, unless you and your opponent come to some other agreement.
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BloodWasher
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Quote BloodWasher Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:05am

So then, are you saying that there are no "combat declaration errors"  and "rolling error" distinctions in AA50?

That is not the way AAMC deals with such errors in 2nd edition and AAR.
 
Perhaps the JAGs need to confer on this issue?
 
Blood
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Krieghund
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Quote Krieghund Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:33am
From a post by BlackWatch in the JAG Rulings forum, dated 12/30/07:
 
This is another item lost in the crash. It was orignailly decided by the JCS, but is not published anywhere on the site now, so I am re-entering from memory the rules regarding what happens if the wrong units are entered in Dicey.
 
2nd edition
 
You must enter the correct units in Dicey or re-roll the units involved. Exception: if the units entered in Dicey have the same hit value as the correct units, the roll(s) will stand (eg. attacking armor entered instead of attacking ftrs, defending armor instead of defending inf, defending BB instead of defending ftr).
 
AAR
 
You must enter the correct units in Dicey or re-roll the units involved.
 
Note: if you make an entry error in AAR with respect to artillery that affects the hit value of infantry units, you do NOT re-roll the correctly entered infantry units, but you may need to make an adjustment to the actual hits scored by those infantry units.
 
Eg.
 
Battle is correctly declared: 1 inf, 1 rtl v 1 inf.
 
Entered as 1 inf, 1 ftr v 1 inf.
 
Rolls:
 
Inf 2
ftr 4
 
inf 5
 
In this case, there is no need to re-roll - the attacking inf has scored a hit, since it is accompanied by an artillery piece and has rolled a 2.
 
BW, JAG
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AndrewAAGamer
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Quote AndrewAAGamer Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:35am
Originally posted by BloodWasher

So then, are you saying that there are no "combat declaration errors"  and "rolling error" distinctions in AA50?

That is not the way AAMC deals with such errors in 2nd edition and AAR.
 
Perhaps the JAGs need to confer on this issue?
 
Blood


I agree with Bloodwasher.  If this was a 2nd Edition or AAR question the "ghost" roll would simply be ignored.  I didn't realize we were using a different policy for AA50 games.

I did assume, or perhaps saw it in a different posting, that for AA50 we are using AAR rules for rolling errors and  that it must be the correct unit for the roll to count even if it happens to roll the same; as in rolling an infantry instead of an artillery in defense.
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Quote Krieghund Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:46am
Is there a later ruling that supercedes the one I quoted above?  I desire to conform with standard practices, but the above ruling doesn't seem to me to allow the roll to stand in the case where too many units are rolled for.  I've searched for a specific reference to this case, but I haven't found one.
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BloodWasher
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Quote BloodWasher Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 11:57am
I think the ruling you quote from BlackWatch refers to entering the wrong type of unit, not the wrong number of units.  I was under the impression that extra ghost units were still just ignored, as they are in 2nd edition.
 
I agree that AAMC rules are difficult to find on the website, and it is sometimes confusing to know what is valid and what has been overruled.. Perhaps they could be updated or consolidated into one new, overriding document?
 
Blood
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AndrewAAGamer
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Quote AndrewAAGamer Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:00pm
Here are the Club rules regarding rolling errors.  As you can see they say you would simply ignore the extra unit as per item F all unaffected rolls stand.  Also, as I said before, I think the exception for item E does not apply to AAR games, the units must be the correct unitfor AAR, but I don't know where that is posted.

2. Rolling Errors - Errors that occur AFTER combat has been correctly declared, but while using Dicey or another roller. Since Dicey lists the dice in the order that they were thrown the new error correction guidelines will take this into account.

a. AA Guns

1) If an AA Gun is turned on accidentally (i.e. there was no AA Gun present) and the "ghost" AA Gun scored a hit, then roll for the missing attacking aircraft, adjust the counts, and then the entire battle is to be re-rolled starting with the next round.

2) Ghost AA Guns that miss are ignored until they hit. If they hit, resolve as per the previous paragraph.

3) If an AA Gun was forgotten simply roll for the missing shots. If there were no AA hits then the original battle stands. If a forgotten AA gun scores a hit, remove the attacking aircraft, adjust the counts for Round 1 and the remainder of the battle is to be re-rolled starting with Round 2.

b. BB Support Shots

1) If a BB support shot was forgotten simply roll for the missing shot. If it misses then the original battle stands. If it hits, adjust for the extra defending casualty and re-roll the remainder of the battle starting with Round 2.

2) If a person leaves the BB support shot on in Round 2, or turns it on in any subsequent round, then the generic ghost rule will apply. For every Round it doesn't hit then it is simply ignored. If it does hit, the counts will be adjusted and the remainder of the battle will be re-rolled starting with the next round, as usual.

c. If a player incorrectly enters too few units simply roll for the missing units and then re-roll the remainder of the battle beginning with the next round.

d. If a player incorrectly enters too many units, for any given unit type, simply start with the first listed die roll and sequentially, from left to right, take the correct number dice. As an example, if there were supposed to be 4 attacking armored units and the player incorrectly entered 7 then the first 4 dice rolls will be used and the last 3 ignored. Then re-roll the remainder of the battle beginning with the next round.

e. If a player enters the wrong type of unit then its roll will be ignored and the correct unit will be rolled for.

Exception: If the "wrong" unit attacks or defends at the same value as the "right" unit then the rolls will stand.

Example: A fighter is accidentally entered for a bomber. The fighter's roll would be ignored and the player would re-roll for the missing bomber.

Example: If 2 defending arm were entered instead of 2 defending infantry the rolls will stand.

f. In all cases unaffected rolls will stand.
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Krieghund
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Quote Krieghund Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:03pm
Could you provide me a link to this for future reference, Andrew?
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AndrewAAGamer
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Quote AndrewAAGamer Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:05pm
Some confusion in my answers as I didn't see Krieghund's second post while I was doing my posts.

Bottom line since the battle was unaffected by the extra or ghost unit the entire battle stands since the battle was declared correctly.
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AndrewAAGamer
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Quote AndrewAAGamer Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:10pm
Here is the Link http://www.aamc.net/bunker/forumsql/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64


It can also be found under Mess Hall, then pinned as item 2, AAMC FAQ:

3.6

Q: How do I correct errors?
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Krieghund
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Quote Krieghund Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:17pm
Thanks.  You're right, it is hard to locate rulings.  Thanks for your help, Andrew and Blood!
 
I agree that the roll should stand, based on club rules.  I apologize for the confusion, Explosive.  I hope it didn't have an adverse effect on your game.
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Carico67
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Quote Carico67 Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:42pm
Damn those IAAPA/AAMC guys are fast!  Thanks Blood/Andrew.  Combat-Error declarations are different then accidental rolling of improper units indeed.
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explosive
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Quote explosive Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:43pm
no problem, my confusion is mostly total anyway.
Had no effect on the game, going for Germany 2 now.
Thank you all for figure things out.
BTW, can USA fleet in EIS move to EOC in one turn ?
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explosive
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Quote explosive Replybullet Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:48pm
Ehhh, ignoore the USfleet question. in a moment of clear thinking i find it out myself.
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