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Rules - 2nd Edition
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 9:02pm
Its all common sense.....during combat movement the canal is enemy controlled.....during noncombat.....everything is friendly....GET IT?
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Solar
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Quote Solar Replybullet Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 9:06pm
I have always played under the rule you had to own it at the start of your turn, both sides, the whole bit!
We cherish, too, the Poppy red That grows on fields where valour led.
It seems to signal to the skies That blood of heroes never dies,
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 9:11pm
You misunderstood the intent of the rule.
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Solar
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Quote Solar Replybullet Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 9:13pm

I supopse anything is possible but i find that doubtful, and would prefer to wait for somehting concrete and final from BW, alas, work is in my near future.

Laters
We cherish, too, the Poppy red That grows on fields where valour led.
It seems to signal to the skies That blood of heroes never dies,
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BlackWatch
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Quote BlackWatch Replybullet Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 9:30pm
LHTR has it laid out completely for AAR:

Canals
There are two canals on the game board, artificial waterways that connect two larger bodies of
water. The Panama Canal connects the Pacific Ocean (sea zone 20) to the Atlantic Ocean (sea
zone 19), while the Suez Canal connects the Mediterranean Sea (sea zone 15) to the Indian Ocean
(sea zone 34). A canal is not considered a space, so it doesn’t block land movement: Land units
can move freely between Trans-Jordan and Anglo-Egypt. Panama is one territory: no land
movement points are required to cross the canal within Panama.
If you want to move sea units through a canal, your side (but not necessarily your power) must
control it at the start of your turn (that is, you can’t use it the turn you capture it). The side that
controls Panama controls the Panama Canal. The side that controls both Anglo-Egypt and Trans-
Jordan controls the Suez Canal. If one side controls Anglo-Egypt and the other controls Trans-
Jordan, the Suez is closed to sea units.

So AAR is explicit.

Page 9 column 1 of the 2nd edition rulebook also makes it equally specific that you must control Panama at the beginning of the turn in order to move through the Panama Canal on that turn. The paragraph following makes it explicit that you must control both sides of the Suez to be allowed to move through at all. Did the authors screw up by not making it explicit a second time that you had to control both sides at the beginning of the turn in order to move through? I don't think it's needed. Even the most argumentative of people will realize that the explicit rule for WHEN you must control the real estate around a canal only needs to be stated once.

Let's move on guys - this has been settled decades ago.

BW


Edited by BlackWatch - 13 Jul 2009 at 9:33pm
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 12:26pm
The suez canal connects a sea zone of the mediterranean sea to a sea zone of the indian ocean. If you or your alliance controls BOTH countries bordering the canal, your naval units can move & attack from 1 zone to the other. PERIOD.....Quit making up rules blackwatch. The panama & suez are 2 seperate canals. And this is 2nd ed, and not aar. You got that sport? If we go by the letter of the law...then I am right. If we go by the ALMIGHTY blackwatch's nutty decisions.....
 
btw- does blackwatch have a secure job here like a supreme court justice?
Can I run against him in an an election? I will introduce common sense into the picture!!
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 12:30pm
I long to become SCARWATCH
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General Lee
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Quote General Lee Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 12:52pm
@scarface - you must be a lawyer to argue the intent of the rule.
 
Lets move on to something else.
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 1:44pm
I'm a house painter arguing for the letter of the law (rule). Let's continue & have some fun!!
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Gene
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Quote Gene Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 1:52pm
This topic was debated on when the club was formed and the JCS voted on the following clarification, which can be found in the AAMC Club Rules.
 
CANALS: You or your allies must own both sides of the canals at the beginning of your turn in order to pass through that canal.
 
This has been in affect since the club was started.
 
 
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 2:15pm
That don't make it right just because people voted on it . The rules are clearly being broken. I want to be the rule csar...or scar
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Gene
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Quote Gene Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 2:46pm

That the rules are being broken is your point of view and you are entitled to that.  The JCS members that voted interpreted it in the way the club plays it.  If you want the rule changed bring it to a member of the JCS and have them vote on it.

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BlackWatch
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Quote BlackWatch Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 2:48pm
Please explain your logic Scarface instead of just ranting. The JCS looked at the rule as printed, and issued a clarification that came CLOSEST to what a reasonable person might infer by reading the rule book as it pertains to canals.

If the Panama clause did not exist, I would actually agree with you Scarface. It has also always appeared a bit quirky to me that you couldn't capture the ground, then move through, but the Panama clause is there and must be reckoned with.

Both paragraphs are together, and should be read as an entirety - I simply can't believe that there's any logic to requiring prior ownership of Panama to move through the Panama canal, without similarly requiring prior ownership of both sides of the Suez in order to move through the Suez canal.

I will concede that the wording in the 2nd edition rulebook could be more explicit than it is, but it's close enough to warrant the interpretation given by me and my predecessors (along with all the other clubs out there too).

BW
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AndrewAAGamer
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Quote AndrewAAGamer Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 3:09pm
It is hard to belive that Scarface can stir up so much trouble on:
a) a rule that the Club has already confirmed how it works in the Club rules as stated by Gene
b) is played that way and has been played that way in every online club that I am aware of and most importantly this one since conception.
c) is the reasonable conclusion by carefully reading the 2nd Edition rules as already stated by Blackwatch
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 3:40pm
OK, here's the logic. The panama & suez canals are 2 very different canals. One canal (panama) is controlled by 1 country.  The other (suez) actually has 2 countries involved. In the case of panama, our forefathers correctly assumed that an attack on panama would cause civil unrest causing canal delays. The suez on the other hand has no such problem. Their is no civil unrest. Are you buying that BS?
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BlackWatch
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Quote BlackWatch Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Scarface

The suez canal connects a sea zone of the mediterranean sea to a sea zone of the indian ocean. If you or your alliance controls BOTH countries bordering the canal, your naval units can move & attack from 1 zone to the other. PERIOD.....Quit making up rules blackwatch. The panama & suez are 2 seperate canals. And this is 2nd ed, and not aar. You got that sport? If we go by the letter of the law...then I am right. If we go by the ALMIGHTY blackwatch's nutty decisions.....
 
btw- does blackwatch have a secure job here like a supreme court justice?
Can I run against him in an an election? I will introduce common sense into the picture!!


So if a ship passes through a canal how many spaces can it move? One or two? Seeing as how we're trying to figure things out without looking at the rest of the rules let's decide that it can only move from one end of the canal to the other, since this paragraph says you can attack from one sea zone to the other (EMed to Red Sz or vice versa).

How's that for a new ruling?? ;)

Or do you think maybe I should try to discern from another part of the rule book how many spaces a boat can move? Hmm.. now you're being tricky, but we'll take that task on next I guess.

BW
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Scarface
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Quote Scarface Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 8:14pm

Are you inebriated blackwatch?

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Solar
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Quote Solar Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Scarface

Are you inebriated blackwatch?

 
Nah hes taking that poll to heart, and trying to see just how much fun he can have with his little friend.
We cherish, too, the Poppy red That grows on fields where valour led.
It seems to signal to the skies That blood of heroes never dies,
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Wulf
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Quote Wulf Replybullet Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by Scarface

I'm a house painter...


Ah.
Paint fumes.

Much is explained...

Overkill is good.
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BlackWatch
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Quote BlackWatch Replybullet Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 8:53am
Originally posted by Scarface

Are you inebriated blackwatch?



Well, actually I was hoping you might concede that you were wrong, or perhaps simply state that you disagree with how the rule has been interpreted, but can understand the process by which the club reached its decision.

But that would take real character on your part I suppose. If bluster and name calling allow you to keep your pride, we'll just have to live with you as you are.

BW


Edited by BlackWatch - 15 Jul 2009 at 9:36am
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